Sudevi Dasi
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Is the jiva actually sat cit ananda? Just in minute form? Some in our group are saying otherwise...think they got some Babaji association? What do you think?
Tradução eletronica :
É o jiva realmente sab cit ananda? Só em forma de minuto? Alguns do nosso grupo estão dizendo de outra forma ... acho que eles têm alguma associação Babaji? O que você acha?
replay :
Bv Suddhadvaiti Swami
My dear Sudevi, I wrote long ago a paper on jiva-tattva and updated it recently.You can read it in my Notes: I am quoting a bit here"They (...) also entertain another misconception, logically born from the first one, which is that the jivas are nirvisesa, attribute-less, having only eternal existence, sat, but no cit nor ananda. This is dismissed ... Ver maisby the Srimad Bhagavatam (10.87.38) quoted by Jiva Goswami in his Bhagavata-sandarbha, anuccheda 25, where he mentions Sridhar Swami’s commentary on the same verse. He says that the jiva loses his natural spiritual opulence such as bliss and knowledge: svarupatam jusan apeta bhagah :
« Because the jiva embraces ignorance and considers the material body as being his identity, absorbed in material energy, he sees his natural spiritual opulence almost completely disappear in contact with it. (He is apeta-bhaga.) You, on the other hand, O Lord, do not see your eternal opulence covered or diminished by maya when You come down in this material world. (You are atta-bhaga.) »
These unfortunate people also think that the jivas don’t have an eternal svarupa and only obtain one by the grace of a guru. They think that the guru doesn’t reveal their svarupa to them but that he gives them one. However, in Bhakti-sandarbha (243) Jiva Goswami defines diksa, initiation, as the transmission of transcendental knowledge, divya-jnana, which consists in knowledge of the original form of the Lord, bhagavata-svarupa-jnana, along with the specific knowledge of the relation between this particular soul, the disciple, with Krishna, bhagavat-sambandha-visesa-jnana. At the time of initiation, the guru transmits this divya-jnana in a seed form within the mantra he reveals to his disciple. Only a qualified guru can perceive the svarupa of his disciple. It is first imprinted in his heart, then, from his heart, he imprints it in the disciple’s heart by transmitting to him the gayatri-mantra through which he initiates him.(...) Srila BV Narayana Maharaja says that if the guru is on the ruci platform, it will be Krishna’s responsibility to make the arrangements for that disciple to get the real thing. That means that He will guide that devotee to a higher siksa-guru…
Others, who also think that the jiva doesn’t originally have a svarupa, base their reasoning on the Priti Sandarbha 11 where Jiva Goswami quotes the Srimad Bhagavatam,1.6.28, where it is said that the devotee obtains a spiritual body, explaining that the Lord gives him such a body. Here ‘to obtain’ actually means that his eternal body manifests once ultimate liberation has been achieved, and ‘the Lord gives him such a body’ means that He frees him from his material envelopes, and that the form they were covering then completely manifests, in order to be able to directly serve Krishna.
They also base themselves on the Priti Sandarbha 10 which mentions « vaikuntha-murtayaha, the innumerable forms of the individual souls which reside in Vaikuntha and which are manifested from little fragments of the Lord’s radiance», to conclude that the spiritual bodies emanate from the effulgence of the Lord’s body, that they are lying inactive in the spiritual world, as if waiting on coat-hangers to be utilized, so to speak, and that the spiritual bodies which are imagined during sadhana become one with these inactive bodies, which then become animated, according to their interpretation of the Priti Sandarbha 13 . This is a variation of the idea that they are given by the guru. It is however a misinterpretation of the words ‘mentally conceived’ used by Rupa Goswami. Jiva Goswami explains in his Durgama sangamani tika that the sadhaka must serve in meditation in a ‘seva upayogi deha’ a body appropriate for the desired service. This body is not an imagined body. More or less on the asakti level, the sadhaka conceives first mentally, internally, his spiritual body, according to the guru’s indications, before being able to really see it fully and identify with it. On this stage, asakti, the disciple begins to vaguely perceive his svarupa, he has sphurti, brief visions of it, like flashes. He sees it briefly as behind a shop’s window, without being able, however, to fully recognize it and identify with it and serve the Lord through it. (...)
« Because the jiva embraces ignorance and considers the material body as being his identity, absorbed in material energy, he sees his natural spiritual opulence almost completely disappear in contact with it. (He is apeta-bhaga.) You, on the other hand, O Lord, do not see your eternal opulence covered or diminished by maya when You come down in this material world. (You are atta-bhaga.) »
These unfortunate people also think that the jivas don’t have an eternal svarupa and only obtain one by the grace of a guru. They think that the guru doesn’t reveal their svarupa to them but that he gives them one. However, in Bhakti-sandarbha (243) Jiva Goswami defines diksa, initiation, as the transmission of transcendental knowledge, divya-jnana, which consists in knowledge of the original form of the Lord, bhagavata-svarupa-jnana, along with the specific knowledge of the relation between this particular soul, the disciple, with Krishna, bhagavat-sambandha-visesa-
Others, who also think that the jiva doesn’t originally have a svarupa, base their reasoning on the Priti Sandarbha 11 where Jiva Goswami quotes the Srimad Bhagavatam,1.6.28, where it is said that the devotee obtains a spiritual body, explaining that the Lord gives him such a body. Here ‘to obtain’ actually means that his eternal body manifests once ultimate liberation has been achieved, and ‘the Lord gives him such a body’ means that He frees him from his material envelopes, and that the form they were covering then completely manifests, in order to be able to directly serve Krishna.
They also base themselves on the Priti Sandarbha 10 which mentions « vaikuntha-murtayaha, the innumerable forms of the individual souls which reside in Vaikuntha and which are manifested from little fragments of the Lord’s radiance», to conclude that the spiritual bodies emanate from the effulgence of the Lord’s body, that they are lying inactive in the spiritual world, as if waiting on coat-hangers to be utilized, so to speak, and that the spiritual bodies which are imagined during sadhana become one with these inactive bodies, which then become animated, according to their interpretation of the Priti Sandarbha 13 . This is a variation of the idea that they are given by the guru. It is however a misinterpretation of the words ‘mentally conceived’ used by Rupa Goswami. Jiva Goswami explains in his Durgama sangamani tika that the sadhaka must serve in meditation in a ‘seva upayogi deha’ a body appropriate for the desired service. This body is not an imagined body. More or less on the asakti level, the sadhaka conceives first mentally, internally, his spiritual body, according to the guru’s indications, before being able to really see it fully and identify with it. On this stage, asakti, the disciple begins to vaguely perceive his svarupa, he has sphurti, brief visions of it, like flashes. He sees it briefly as behind a shop’s window, without being able, however, to fully recognize it and identify with it and serve the Lord through it. (...)
. Radheee ..
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